Caregiving for Someone Experiencing a Natural Death or Failure to Thrive - Caretakers, elderly care, nursing homes Near Me | Near Me Direct

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November 3, 2024

Caregiving for Someone Experiencing a Natural Death or Failure to Thrive – Caretakers, elderly care, nursing homes

10-03-2024, 08:01 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio60

My Mom's hospice nurses took blood and took it to the lab. Where I am there aren't any mobiles. I guess every city or state is different.

I suggested mobile options because OP's dad is not (yet) on hospice and OP was disappointed that labs wouldn't be taken until the Monday doctor visit.

10-03-2024, 02:22 PM

Location: Vermont

1,676 posts, read 948,993 times

Reputation: 3874

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasel

I suggested mobile options because OP's dad is not (yet) on hospice and OP was disappointed that labs wouldn't be taken until the Monday doctor visit.

Yes, I understand and that's a great suggestion!

10-03-2024, 03:02 PM

Location: northern New England

5,522 posts, read 4,366,032 times

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If it is determined that death is probably near, do not insist that the person eat something to keep their strength up. Refusing food is a natural part of the dying process although it may be difficult for the family to see.

10-04-2024, 12:53 AM

Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC

1,727 posts, read 2,618,236 times

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio60 Agree with Va-Cat, the important thing is to make sure he is comfortable and not in any pain as well as talking to his doctor.

My mom passed about 6 weeks ago and she also slept a lot, didn't eat as much, etc. I had hospice come in to make her more comfortable. She died in her bed (actually it was a hospital bed) which is what she wanted. She was 98-1/2 years old. It was a very peaceful death.

We all die, it's part of life. Everyone's time is different. But before you make up your mind that your Dad is dying, have him checked out by doctor(s). He could have an infection, a UTI, etc.

Best to you and your family.

Thank you, Scorpio. I'm sorry for your loss.

I do not fear death. I have lived through the hardest experience I've ever had to endure (mom's death), and I learned a lot in that experience. Since then, I've spent a lot of time reading about death and dying, learning from hospice "influencers" etc. about what to expect, etc. I'm the one who's actually talking my brother down about a lot of his perceptions about what's going on.

An example: Brother has been cleaning out and organizing my dad's large, clutter-filled workshop, a task he didn't want to touch until after my dad was gone because, up until this latest decline, my dad forbade us to even pick up a broom out there. The workshop is a separate building, the size of a small house, and has a large concrete carport where some farm equipment is stored. Brother was out there separating good stuff from junk when he noticed my dad coming to the kitchen window frequently. Brother got it in his head that my dad's day-long sleep Monday was because he was mad that we were throwing his stuff out, moving things around, etc. In his current state, my dad doesn't have the physical or mental energy it takes to be mad, so I reminded him of this. He wasn't buying it, but, thankfully, my sister-in-law chimed in to agree with me.

I've also been the one pushing heavily for the doctor's visit, because until we rule out all the things this *could* be, we won't know if he's truly at death's door or if he needs an antibiotic or if he has a metastasis of his very slow-growing prostate cancer. His PSA hasn't been tested in about 10 years, because nobody worries about cancer when there aren't symptoms. For all we know, he could have a brain tumor. That doesn't mean we would pursue treatment, but at least we'd know what to expect.

10-04-2024, 01:04 AM

Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC

1,727 posts, read 2,618,236 times

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio60 How do you know he will go to his doctor on Monday?

Please don't base your experience with hospice when your Mom died, not all hospice is the same. Hospice was a huge help to my Mom as well as myself.

I hope your Dad is not alone.

Edit: When someone is dying their organs start to shut down which causes a lot of pain. Which is why hospice (the nurses) prescribed morphine to give to my mom so she wouldn't be in any pain.

He has agreed to go. My sister-in-law has been reminding him every day. If he refuses, we will force the issue and he will relent. He's too weak to resist. We don't like treating him like a toddler, but this is non-negotiable.

I hear what you're saying about hospice. I watched my mom's organs shut down, so I know the drill regarding the morphine. Until we're at that point, we will likely manage this ourselves. Though not a nurse, my sister-in-law has worked with hospital patients for nearly 30 years, so her perspective is very helpful in interpreting his vitals and day-to-day changes. That's not to say that we won't need home health care at some point soon; we'll be asking the doctor what he recommends.

10-04-2024, 01:06 AM

Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC

1,727 posts, read 2,618,236 times

Reputation: 4097

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasel

I suggested mobile options because OP's dad is not (yet) on hospice and OP was disappointed that labs wouldn't be taken until the Monday doctor visit.

Funny you should mention this. While talking with my brother earlier, it suddenly occurred to me that mobile labs might be an option. He is looking into that.

10-04-2024, 01:34 AM

Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC

1,727 posts, read 2,618,236 times

Reputation: 4097

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTsnowbird

I completely agree and have reminded my siblings of the horrible situation my mom was put in. My dad was feeding her large complete meals 3X/day and ice cream milkshakes for after-dinner dessert night after night. Meanwhile, she was bedridden and wasn't defecating due to constipation (this was before the morphine was introduced). None of the remedies hospice suggested and prescribed worked, and we finally had to have a nurse out to do a manual disimpaction. I grew up with farm animals, and the only other time I'd heard someone bellow like that was when our dairy cow was trying to birth a too-big calf.

It was horrible -- and ultimately unsuccessful. My dad grew up in uber-rural Georgia in the 1940s; routine doctor visits weren't a thing and as long as you displayed a hearty appetite, all was good. When you stopped eating, you were done for. My mom knew my dad's thoughts/rearing on this, so she ate whatever he brought her, because that reassured him that she was okay (they both were in denial for her last year of life). I'm embarrassed to say just how long that went on (too much food in, nothing out) before my mom fell unconscious and began to transition. We should have noticed this, but by the time we realized it, it was far too late to do anything.

Anyway, I keep reminding my brother of this, and he's finally listening. My sister-in-law made an excellent observation, though. If you ask my dad if he's hungry, he'll say no, but if you tell him you have his food ready, he will eat it. He might not eat all of it or even half of it, but he'll eat some. I'm okay with this as long as what's going in is also coming out, and it is (for now).

I'm not afraid of walking this path again (unlike the first time, when I was terrified). I've learned a lot from that experience and am much more confident in our ability to provide the care he needs while also giving him a dignified death. To be honest, my dad died 8 years ago when my mom did. He's been going through the motions, but I know for certain that he just wants to go to sleep and not wake up. He has told us this. I'm okay with that; in fact, I want that for him, because I know his heart is broken and he's living in constant misery. He's not tied to me and my brother in the same way he is to her, and we've (mostly) made our peace with that.

10-04-2024, 12:31 PM

Location: Near Sacramento

929 posts, read 623,180 times

Reputation: 2557

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERH Thanks all for your responses. He was supposed to get labs today, but he decided he didn't want to get out of bed, so he'll get those done at his doctor's appointment Monday.

I don't think he's lost a lot of weight, but we'll certainly be looking at that Monday.

We had a horrible hospice experience when my mother died, so we're going to avoid it as long as he's not in pain. My brother is now retired and able to check on him 4-5 times daily, so he's well looked after when I'm not there. I'll be returning in a few days to split those duties.

I hate that we won't have lab numbers prior to the appointment, but it is what it is.

We had good experience with Hospice. The facility was more of the problem, but there was a kind nurse who helped us get the meds my dad needed scheduled which made his final days peaceful. Knowing that the brother is there is very important. If we hadn't have been able to be there and advocate for my dad, his final days most likely wouldn't have been peaceful.

Sorry, you are going through this. Even though we do all pass away, for those left behind, when it actually happens, it is still hard.

cd : O)

10-04-2024, 04:19 PM

Location: Vermont

1,676 posts, read 948,993 times

Reputation: 3874

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERH Thank you, Scorpio. I'm sorry for your loss.

Thanks for your kind words, it's still hard dealing with the loss of my mother.

As far as your brother, it sounds like he is in denial which is quite common. Most of us don't want to face illness or death.

I think that's smart to rule out everything that "could" be before anyone makes up their mind that your Dad may be at his final days. That said if your Dad made up his mind that he wants to be with your Mom, I get that. It sounds to me like your Dad loved your Mom very much based on what you wrote.

From my own experience what's also important is the quality of one's life. Once that is diminished we need to let go and accept that. Before my Mom got sick she was still enjoying life so it wasn't her time. All of a sudden everything changed for the worst. And that was that.

Take it one day at a time, that's all we can do.

I wish you and your family the best under these circumstances.

10-26-2024, 07:27 PM

Location: Raleigh-Durham, NC

1,727 posts, read 2,618,236 times

Reputation: 4097

UPDATE: Lab results were unremarkable, nothing out of the ordinary, kidneys are holding steady at stage 3b. Doctor has altered the dosage of 2 of his prescription drugs to see if that has any impact. It may be weeks before we see anything of significance.

Meanwhile, he has a consistent schedule. He's awake and in his recliner 2 days, then stays in bed for the third day (we wake him for meds). He's followed this pattern for a couple of months now. He says it's not intentional and he doesn't know why he sleeps so much. It doesn't phase him at all that he goes to sleep one night and doesn't wake up for a whole day or day-and-a-half. He even slept through the entirety of Hurricane Milton, which we experienced full-force as the eye passed a hair south of us.

On the days he's vertical, he generally wakes between 11am and 12:30pm, then goes to bed between 8pm and 10pm. Within that short time frame, he gets breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Sometimes, he eats heartily; others, not so much. I get the feeling that his taste buds are working much differently now, as there are many foods he refuses. He used to be a diehard sausage lover, but he says he doesn't like it now. Same with salad and many vegetables. I'm thinking of having him try some Chinese or Indian foods; perhaps those flavors would appeal to him.

He has resisted wearing Depends, but it's when he's not wearing them that he seems to have bathroom mishaps (lucky us). I think he's well on the way to being fully incontinent, as today's accident occurred completely out of nowhere as he was returning FROM the bathroom. Unless I've missed something, there's no way to solve that issue, so we will deal with it as needed. Today's accident was another opportunity to remind him how important it is for him to wear these vile underpants, if nothing else but to minimize the mess.

A lot of this is baffling, but it's part of whatever journey this is. He sees the doctor again in 3 weeks unless something comes up before then.

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